bin laden ballad

[honeyk]

we will overthrow you
try to roar
and make it rain fiery death-
throw pain or wicked approach
no storm you imagine will matter-
we live free.

[Pixelina]

another quick thought, but a required slow read...nice

------------------

[Hannibal]

Didn't like it. Not one bit. I didn't think it was nice. I hated it to be truthfull. Not sure what you could do to make this one better. Ummmm the name says it all. I realize people are gonna feel this way about him, but we don't even know if he's done it yet. But that's another topic all together. But it just was too chunky, too small, and not enough of anything. I couldn't get a picture, not a small one, not a big one. I just didnt like it.

------------------
To hate is to show you still care, who needs that? Focus on what's really important.
The best revenge, is to survive yourself.

[honeyk]

thanks for the replies....but a few points to hannibal:

1. the DO know bin laden was behind it
2. poetry is about squeezing a lot of feelings into few words, otherwise it would be prose...so my poems tend to be short, but are meant to describe a lot of my feelings, which this one does.
3. you are not meant to get any sort of a picture through this one in the first place, which explaines why you "didnt get any sort of one at all"
4. the reader, as oppsed to many other literary forms, is not the most impoortant one in poetry...the author is because of it's emotional purposes

------------------

[Hannibal]

let me put it this way
1.I really don't give a shit about the Trade Center happenings and who was behind it.
2.I didn't like your poem, and I stated my reasons why, it is MY opinion, and it was MY reply. There is no need to correct me for it.
After all, we post here to get opinions, the good, bad, and the ugly. And personally, I'm sick of seeing everyone say "oh , good poem, keep posting"

No one here actually critiques poems and that pisses me off.

So, like I said, it's my opinion.


------------------
To hate is to show you still care, who needs that? Focus on what's really important.
The best revenge, is to survive yourself.

[parch]

Hannible: bravo! you are correct. no one here critiques poems. I used to try, but have failed recently and I doubt I was very useful in the past.

we have all been sucking a lot of each other's dicks lately. even those without dicks we suck. I find myself doing it more and more, and I'm sick of it. I hope you all are as well.

a note on the poem:
I didn't like it either. That doesn't mean you have to get offended, but maybe, just maybe you should. If it really is important to you, for personal reasons,.. then get offended and don't put it on an open discussion board. I'm grateful that you've visited the board, but don't come looking for hand-outs. We all have opinions and lots of us are assholes. This is your surroundings. Aside from opinions, we should all try to literally critique, which is different from stating your opinion. A critique says something more, it says something from what you know in form, knowledge, experience, whatever. A critique should help a writer understand that they either did something right, or did something wrong. It shouldn't just declare the reader's feelings.

Another point: ON the READER
The Reader, audience figure is an important part of poetry. Everyone writes for someone to read. If you write just for you, then you would keep it in a journal and not post it up on the internet. We all have to choose our audiences. If you write for you, then you are the audience. If you write for us, then we are the audience, and if you write for others, you can use us as a test audience but you must realize that when you post here - we are the audience. The audience matters. Art is a relationship between artist and audience. Without the relationship, art is nothing. Art does not exist, without both pieces.

HERE's MY CRITIQUE:
If you want this to be short and describe a lot of feelings. You failed. I did not get any feelings. I did not see, hear, feel anything.
DON'T BE OFFENDED. Take it or leave it. Stay please. I like new members. I like people that are constructive in their use of this board. If you choose to be offended, then obviously this is not your audience for this particular poem. That doesn't mean the poem sucks. That means you chose the wrong audience, big whoop! I do that all the time. I have poems that may be wonderous at a public reading, but dreadful on paper. I have to choose the right audience for the poem to be successful.

ON Bin Laden, Terrorist attacks, so on:

I don't know much about it except what I've caught in random news shots... and from all day Tues watching... aside from that.. I have little to no info. But - if you wanna talk about it, by all means, do. Put up another discussion or add on here.

___---
trying to keep it reasonably worthwhile to visit this board
-parch

------------------
I am my new Religion
I am my non Decision

[honeyk]

1. i am not at all offended that neither of you like my work. your opinions do not matter to me on a personal level.

2. if you look at my reply, i was not arguing with your opinon, hannibal (read closely)...i was arguing with the way you critiqued my poem, just as you posted a reply arguing my response. I have participated in countelss critiques of literature, both professional and student-produced throughout the past few years, and i know what a real critique is supposed to be (according to several different methods) Your critiques (to both hannibal and parch) are not at all professional, if that is what you are trying to accomplish. if you have questions on the form of a literary critique, i would be happy to answer them.

3. i am usually not at all a poet, so my work is probably inexperienced. however, i am a very good writer, and understand the mechanics of an audience. my audience was chosen very carefully for this particular piece, and obviously, it was not you. if that was unclear in the poem, i accept that and will work to make improvements in the future.

4. i can accept constructive critisism, however, this is NOT a good example of that:
"nope. didn't like it. not at all."
THAT DOES NOT HELP ANYONE REVISE OR IMPORVE THEIR WORK, which seems to be your goal. In the future, cite SPECIFIC LINES or use EXAMPLES to justify your claims...it helps the author a lot more than a general "it sucks," which is offensive any way you write it.

5. I am really into politics and world affairs, so i probably know a lot more about this whole situation than the both of you do, which is ok. some people aren't into that kind of stuff. but if poetry is poetry, than do not insult the title or it's implications....especially if you have no idea what you are talking about...because poetry is just poetry.

[Hannibal]

Alright. Let's set a few things straight Miss Concieted. I DID cite examples of why your poem blew ass. I told you it was too short and chunky, etc... Perhaps it's not I that should read, little miss professional literary critic. *rolls eyes* I'm a professional motocross racer in my spare time, yea uh huh, that happens. Anyways, back to my original point being, I DID criticize your work, no it was not professional, but if your looking for professional work, send your shit elsewhere. This forum is just that, open to opinions and ideas, so I can say what I think about a poem anyway I want.

There really was no reason to bring the politis and everythign about that into it. Because as I stated earlier, I dont give a shit about the happenings, and as parch said, yes, he knows little of it.
So, your points there were to rub our noses in the fact that you like politics.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1. how was a plane able to crash into the pentagon an hour after the WTC towers were hit? shouldn't someone have thought to watch the radar for other planes making u-turns?
2. why would the terrorists leave so much evidence in the airport parking lot? the attacks were planned so well, it seems odd that they would forget to hide the evidence.

3. isn't it odd that almost immediately the attacks were said to 'look like the work of bin laden'? with all of the evidence quickly falling into place? we are not talking a parcel bomb here, nor even some fanatic driving a car bomb into a restaurant in jerusalem.

4. why were so many people allowed to make phone calls? did the terrorists just not pay attention?

5. what are the new actions taken by the airports doing to stop anything, i mean, what does a ban on curbside service have to do with stopping any of this?

wait, wait, i'm sorry. i don't know what i was thinking. of course bin laden's men did it. why would the pentagon expect to get hit? the attacks were in new york! yes, it all makes sense now. i was wrong.
yeah, those bin laden terroists were good, but they were no lee harvey oswald.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just some quetsions from another friend off another board.

------------------
As miserable as life may be I hold it pretty precious...

If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no light. If I lose paper and ink, I wil write in blood on forgotten walls. I will write always, I will capture nights all over the world and bring them to you.

[This message has been edited by Hannibal (edited September 18, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Hannibal (edited September 18, 2001).]

[Pixelina]

ok ok, some of us are getting pretty heated over 6 lines of someones thoughts. honeyk posted a few lines describing a feeling she was having.

2 of us did not happen to like it, i myself enjoyed reading it because i couldn't breeze through it, i had to pause at each word, i naturally like that kind of thing.

no, we are not professionals that's obvious. yes, we all have opinions, that's very obvious.

it's good to give opinions on others' work because that is the whole purpose of this board. but maybe we could be a little more mature and constructive in our criticizms and our responses to the criticizms

------------------

[honeyk]

thanks, pixelina.....you said exactly what i have been trying to say. so...i will try to improve me work (although, like i said...i am sooo not a poet)...and maybe other people should try to improve their methods of response.

not to hannibal....i have not gotten upset of "emotionaly involved" with this debate at all...you, on the other hand have. i suggest you calm down, write a poem about how concieted you think i am, if that is what you need to do....and maybe, just maybe...try watching the news. have a wonderful day.